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105 mm på Piranha V og Hercules.

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105 mm på Piranha V og Hercules. Empty 105 mm på Piranha V og Hercules.

Indlæg af Thomas Tors Jul 28, 2022 8:28 am

For nu at citere mig selv:

Ja, hvem tror I? skrev:Personally I can't getaway from mounting a 105 mm cannon on Humvee type vehicle - though I would like a MOWAG Eagle V - possibly with spades. And at least semifixed ammunition. The drawback on this gun is that it uses to much crew.
The point about the Eagle V is that it is possible to transport it with a Hercules and thus opens up smaller airfields that gives easier in- and exfiltration of the unit. You could transport a whole battery in three Hercules lifts. I want the Eagle V because it gives the crew some protection for most of the time, and it can get the #¤%&!! out of there and change position. We are seeing in Ukraine on the bridge that different salvoes from HIMARS are litterarily hitting the same point on the bridge, so moving as soon as possible is at a premium.

I would even include a platoon of infantry - but gunners - like the australians do: If you are short handed you can easier reduse the infantry with a man or two than take away from a gun crew.

I would like a longer tube: The basic difference between a canon and a howitzer is old school; but a canon was defined as a gun with a barrel length long enough for the powder (propellant charge) to burn to its fullest potential. The howitzers are shorter barreled but hauls the larger shell - though not as far.

A british M118 or US M119 (basically the same thing) is quoted as having a 10 miles range - I suppose in practise we talk about 15 km. M118 20 km base bleed. I suppose that ranges beyound that makes precision a bit questionable or complicated.
The other factor is that you can blend the batteri with 120 mm mortars and get an overlap between flat trajectory and parabolic trajectory.

The other point is: Not only can a 105 mm Piranha V be airlifted with a Hercules (it is much cheaper to fit the sardines to the tin than having to design the tin to take a cod), but it can also be kept supplied with a Hercules.
Each piece will carry about 30 rounds - which gives a load up of the battery of 180 rounds - each weighing say 50 kilos in transport wrapping. Or about 10 tons and a loading Piranha should be able to hold up to 10 tons.

I notice that the CAESAR 155 mm holds 30-40 rounds ready on an 8*8 Tatra somewhat protected chassis. Meaning that is the practical loadout before the CAESAR moves back to reload and change position - thus saving the complication of having a fleet of trucks driving from an ammunition dump or railhead. Ammunition dumps are shown to be particularly vulnerable. With resupply from a Hercules you can omit the ammunition dump and just unload the aeroplane that takes off immediately after the off load.

A soldier must realise that he is paid for offering the political masters OPTIONS.

I would like to draw attention to the old comedy: Yes, Prime Minister and the israeli ambassador:

The point being that fast reaction is of the essense: Here the relationship was between the american division and a british battalion - or rather: A week in reaction time.
The proposition is VERY realistic: The then Danish PM Helle Thorning-Schmidt moved a deployment of air policesing forward by three weeks and that got through parliament and the F-16's took off as soon as the green lights in parliament was counted (solid majority). The Estonians were immensely relieved.

Om mit indlæg har en indflydelse; måske slet ikke; men nu har jeg skrevet det! Også selvom det må opfattes som på side 107 i en bla.bla.bla. rapport. Jeg har som en af de få - meget få - rent faktisk læst Brundtland rapporten, hvilket jeg er stensikker på at min nuværende læser ikke har. Pointen er her, at alle konklusionerne - som blev læst af miljøfimsere, perverse bøssesvin og skolelærere - havde INTET med den omfattende argumentation og dokumentation at gøre. Direkte selvmodsigende.

Hvilket principielt også behandles af: Yes, Prime Minister!

Men nu har jeg skrevet det!


Thomas
Thomas

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105 mm på Piranha V og Hercules. Empty Forskellen på en kanon og en haubitzer.

Indlæg af Thomas Tors Jul 28, 2022 9:25 am

Så vidt jeg har forstået, så drejer det sig om, at løbet på en kanon er så langt, at krudtladningen har brændt færdig inden projektilet forlader løbet. I "de gode gamle dage" med sortkrudt så brændte det hurtigere, hvorfor kanonerne havde et kort; men meget solidt løb.
En haubitzer korter løbet af, hvilket naturligvis forkorter rækkevidden; men samtidig sender den tunge ladning af sted.

Det lader til, at den grænse for løbslængde i dag ligger på 52 kalibre. De 105mm haubitzere, der bruges i dag har et løb på 35-40 kalibre. Det skulle være muligt at bygge en 105 mm. kanon som har en effektiv skudvidde på 20 km. Kommer vi meget derover, så begynder matematikken at blive irriterende kompliceret.

Det kan blive nødvendigt at bruge progressiv rifling og base bleed.

Årsagen til progressiv rifling er ikke så meget at bringe vinkelhastigheden (og dermed gyroskop effekten) hurtigere og længere op. Tværtimod!
På lavere kalibre er det et problem, at når skuddet går så udsættes projektilet for så stærk en acceleration af kappen, at kappen og ladningen vrider sig i forhold til hinanden, hvilket jeg formoder er uheldigt for alle stumperne i granaten, der gerne skulle arbejde sammen får svært ved det.
Vi ser i hvert fald progressiv rifling på maskinkanoner på 30-35 mm.
Ved større kalibre er det også et fænomen, der har været benyttet i binære kemiske granater, hvor to substanser (om ikke ufarlige, så langt mindre farlige end f.eks. nervegasser) af rotationen af granaten bruges til at blande de to substanser. Så i visse sammenhænge har det en betydning også for de større kalibre.
En progessiv rifling gør, at vinkelaccelerationen ikke bliver så voldsom på det første stykke.

Jeg ved heller ikke om "ringen" - altså at løbet begynder at vibrere - bliver et problem; men det skulle kunne klares.
Thomas
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